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gotchacovered Posted - 05/04/2012 : 08:10:30 AM
Please watch the following videos. If you want to throw rocks at me afterward, go ahead, but just watch them through first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIldXZcs8pg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0DTT3u2JZ8&feature=related






Gotcha Covered,
Lee Strickland
Strickland Marine Insurance Agency, Inc.
https://stricklandmarine.net
843-795-1000 / 800-446-1862
25   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
gotchacovered Posted - 05/08/2012 : 12:21:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 7cs

quote:
Originally posted by gotchacovered

"Must have missed that "might" part in the title."

That's why they say, "don't judge a book by its cover". You really need to read the whole of what I a man writes before trying to form conclusions about his message. Otherwise, you will regularly misunderstand.

From my first reply to BGF above: "....it could represent a milestone in the Prophecy of the Ingathering....may be on the horizon....the last act could be about to begin...."

7cs, if you don't see the potential Biblical significance of a world-renowned Jewish leader, from the generation who reclaimed the Holy Land as the Homeland for the Jews after 2,000 years of exile, allegedly pronouncing to the world, from Jerusalem, that Jesus Christ is the Messiah of Israel, then I highly recommend that you do some Bible reading, and, maybe, chat with some pastors. The observations I've made on this are not by any means scarce among Evangelical Christians. This stuff is obvious to most any Christian student of Biblical Prophecy.

"As far as seasons, they are constantly unfolding in the Biblical timeline."

That's true, but not to the point of a world-renowned Jewish leader pronouncing Jesus as the Messiah. No, sir. That hasn't happened in, oh, about 2,000 years, and those who did it then were killed for it, launching--well, there you have it--a major milestone in the Biblical timeline.

"They have been since Christ came."

That's true, but again, not to this magnitude. The last incident of this level of importance was probably the reclamation of the Holy Land by Israel in 1947-1948--a fulfillment of a 2500-year-old prophecy.

"Who are you to point that out?"

I'm just a guy who reads the Bible and thinks about this stuff. Last I checked, anyone could speak freely about it if they chose. I'm not sure why it matters who I am.

"Latter days is a broad term, but again......"

Absolutely correct--as is "last act". That's intentional. Again, I'm not saying that the end of the world is tomorrow. The important part is that Jews are coming to Faith in Jesus in larger and larger numbers and in higher and higher places within Judaism. That is not limited to kaduri, and it is Biblically significant, not because I say it is, but because the Bible says it is. Read up on it, and we can chat more later.






Gotcha Covered,
Lee Strickland
Strickland Marine Insurance Agency, Inc.
https://stricklandmarine.net
843-795-1000 / 800-446-1862





And on this we are in agreement. Respectful debate.



Cool. No problem, then. I only ask that you completely read all of my writings and sources before making any counter-arguments so you don't misunderstand or misrepresent me (and waste your time arguing things I've not said). OK, I also ask that we all keep an open mind on the possibilities and realities here and not hastily jump to conclusions in any direction, always keeping in mind that respect begets and earns respect. It's a two-way street. I'll meet you in the middle.






Gotcha Covered,
Lee Strickland
Strickland Marine Insurance Agency, Inc.
https://stricklandmarine.net
843-795-1000 / 800-446-1862
gotchacovered Posted - 05/08/2012 : 12:16:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 7cs

Was it determined in the video that the Jewish leader was definately saying Jesus was the messiah, or is that speculation right now?



First, please watch the videos. If you do that, it's pretty clear what they are claiming and why.

If you want to know what the possible counter-arguments are, read my reply to BGF, posted above, and reposted below.

quote:
Originally posted by gotchacovered

quote:
Originally posted by bgf

Interesting Lee. Do they believe that this is the same Jesus that we follow? I got the feeling that they believe the crucifixion and ressurection are yet to come. ?



That's an excellent and fitting question! I appreciate people who resist the tendency to jump to firm conclusions without thorough discovery.

At this point, I am not sure if Kaduri really is hailing the Biblical Jesus or a modern, false Messiah. It's not without precedent for a rabbi to hail a false messiah here and there. The importance, however, remains either way in this case because of the Name and the world-renowned prowess of the rabbi making the claim.

If he's talking about the Biblical Jesus, then that would be most important because it could represent a milestone in the Prophecy of the Ingathering, shared by Jews AND Christians, where Israel comes home and receives her Messiah. Both groups believe in a final ingathering, a Messiah, and a full-scale reception of Him by a "remnant" of Israel, but to date, only a relative few "Jews" have joined brothers in believing that the Messiah is the Biblical Jesus--even though the Faith started with Jews and at least around 200,000 Messianic Jews are estimated to exist today--175,000 in the United States alone.

If he's talking about someone else by the same Name (there are plenty of Jews named by the same name, and at least one among Kaduri's friends), then the Revelation prophecy of the antichrist may be on the horizon. The antichrist must have the power to deceive people into thinking he's divine and worthy of taking his seat in Jerusalem. The religious authority carried by Kaduri, coupled with the Name he revealed could work together to make for a grand deception among Jews and Gentiles. Jesus said that the deception would be so great that "if it were possible, even the elect would be deceived". That deception should be easily spotted, however, by ardent students of the Gospel Scriptures, when and if some existing human being stepped forward--with or without Kaduri's intended blessing--and claimed to be that Messiah that Kaduri named, because the Biblical Jesus warned us not to follow ANY "Messiah" who didn't appear in the sky, where He said He will be seen upon His return. He came as an Earthly man the first time. When He returns, it will be a celestial event.

Either way, the last act could be about to begin.

With that being said, what I can tell you with a high degree of certainty is that the guy on the right in the first video is Zev Porat, a Messanic Jew (Jewish Christian) who is definitely talking about the Biblical Jesus. He's a Gospel missionary to Israel. (The ministry's website is http://salvationforisrael.net/). The alleged disciple of Kaduri in the video appearently knows Zev, and if Zev is translating him accurately, the disciple believes that Zev was sent by God to him to help spread the Good News that Kaduir taught him--the Gospel. It stands to reason that no Jesus-rejecting Jew, hailing another Messiah, would believe Zen Porat was a Godsend. More importantly, the mention of the cross and the shedding of the Messiah's blood as ultimate redemption through the Crucifixion is patently Christian and patently rejected by traditional Jews. That's actually one of the primary catches that keep Jews from believing in Jesus.

So, if translated properly by Zev Porat, it appears that, at the very least, the alleged disciple of Kaduri is definitely talking about the Biblical Jesus in the first video. He also clearly says that his master, Kaduri, taught him about the Biblical Jesus as the Savior Messiah. What is still not clear there, though, is whether or not they are expecting His Return to occur in the way that WE are expecting it (i.e., in the sky as a supernatural celestial event), or in some other way, as through some kind of soul attachment with an already-living man. If it is the latter, then they are unwittingly preaching a false Messiah. In otherwords, just like ANY "Christian", they could really believe in the Biblical Jesus, but they could be expecting Him to return in the person of some rabbi by the same name, sort of like a reincarnation event. Jesus warned us about things like that. Like I said, though, that part is unclear.

Along with disciple's mention of the Crucifixion, others who claim to have examined Kaduri's other late writings say that he hand-wrote cross symbols in the margins. One must keep in mind that the cross is a primary offense to a traditional Jew when used in reference to a Messiah. Crucifixion was a 1st-century Roman institution, and the cross has become synonymous with the persecution of the Jews over the millenia since. It is not generally accepted as any sort of Godly symbol by traditional Jews, and while more learned Jews do know about the ancient Jewish tradition of a suffering-servant Messiah, the suffering is not believed by them to be along the lines of crucifixion. Some Messianic Synagogues won't even allow a cross in the building because, while they understand the meaning and value, they don't want to quickly turn off traditional Jews who have always seen the cross as a symbol of antisemitism. So, I think the mention of crucifixion specifically ties the disciple's testimony to the Biblical Jesus, while the cross symbols may do the same for Kaduri's writings.

Aside from all that, no Messiah figure garnishes the kind of trepidation among the Orthodox in Israel, and causes quite the uproar, as the Biblical Jesus. The controversy over this is obvioulsy over the idea that Kaduri was referring to the Biblical Jesus, and the opponents of the idea have tried several arguments to counter the claim. That could explain why he waited util after his own death to reveal the Name, and the alleged disciple in the first video above says that's the exact reason. He said Kaduri was afraid of the persecution of his peers that would surely follow his pronouncement that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah. I know a lady who helps rabbis and their families escape persecution in the Jerusalem yeshiva community when they profess faith in Yeshua as the Messiah, so I know what he's talking about. The Orthodox can get very hostile over a fellow orthodox professing faith in Jesus. It's a big deal.

If Kaduri were simply claiming another modern rabbi named Yeshua as the Messiah, that wouldn't be that big of a deal, because Jews do that every now and then. In fact, even though virtually everyone now knows that Bar Kochbah was a false Messiah, whom Rabbi Achiva hailed as the savior during the revolution of 134 AD, leading the whole of Jewry to be exiled from Jerusalem, Jews all over the world still revere Achiva, despite his false Messiah. That's the odd (telling?) thing. Jews don't get as riled up over false Messiahs as they do about the Biblical Jesus.

Orthodox in Israel who did not share Kaduri's apparent belief are scrambling to deny the claim. Their first resort was to deny that the letter was written by Kaduri, but it was posted on his own official website by his own disciples. Then, they claimed that he was talking about another Yeshua--a rabbi that Kaduri knew. If the alleged disciple in the first video above is true and correct, then Kaduri was talking about the Biblical Jesus. If others are right, the Kaduri was talking about someone else.

So, like I said, at this point, I really don't know whether Kaduri was talking about the Biblical Jesus or not. One more thing that gives me some pause is that Kaduri allegedly also said something in a speech about Messiah's Soul having been "attached to a person" (a reputed concept among Kabalists). That sounds more like a Kaballistic setup for a false messiah, but I just don't know for sure.

We'll have to just follow the Instruction Manual, and do what Jesus said to do in the mean time--watch the sky and reject any man claiming to be the Messiah.

While we're on this topic, though, I'll post another video for you that shows an orthodox rabbi in Israel who claims that his rabbinical masters taught him the the Biblical Yeshua is the messiah, but that he doesn't consider himself a "Christian", per se, because, as he says, the Christians don't truly follow the Biblical Jesus because they don't keep the Law of Moses. You see, even among the first Christians (who were Jews), there was always a faction of Jesus-believing rabbis who insisted that Jesus was a Teacher of the Law. From the Gospels and the account of Acts, I believe they were right, but the Jerusalem council, led by James, granted Gentile Christians a waiver from the Law of Moses, except for four specific Laws, according to the book of acts. It was a subject of great controversy at the time.

The important part here is that, regardless of whether or not we believe Jesus preached the Law of Moses, even Orthodox rabbis are coming to Faith in the Biblical Jesus as THE Messiah--despite a culture of extreme persecution. This is potentially a big deal in the area of Biblical prophecy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq9ZJT18q7g






Gotcha Covered,
Lee Strickland
Strickland Marine Insurance Agency, Inc.
https://stricklandmarine.net
843-795-1000 / 800-446-1862








Gotcha Covered,
Lee Strickland
Strickland Marine Insurance Agency, Inc.
https://stricklandmarine.net
843-795-1000 / 800-446-1862
7cs Posted - 05/08/2012 : 12:11:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by gotchacovered

"Must have missed that "might" part in the title."

That's why they say, "don't judge a book by its cover". You really need to read the whole of what I a man writes before trying to form conclusions about his message. Otherwise, you will regularly misunderstand.

From my first reply to BGF above: "....it could represent a milestone in the Prophecy of the Ingathering....may be on the horizon....the last act could be about to begin...."

7cs, if you don't see the potential Biblical significance of a world-renowned Jewish leader, from the generation who reclaimed the Holy Land as the Homeland for the Jews after 2,000 years of exile, allegedly pronouncing to the world, from Jerusalem, that Jesus Christ is the Messiah of Israel, then I highly recommend that you do some Bible reading, and, maybe, chat with some pastors. The observations I've made on this are not by any means scarce among Evangelical Christians. This stuff is obvious to most any Christian student of Biblical Prophecy.

"As far as seasons, they are constantly unfolding in the Biblical timeline."

That's true, but not to the point of a world-renowned Jewish leader pronouncing Jesus as the Messiah. No, sir. That hasn't happened in, oh, about 2,000 years, and those who did it then were killed for it, launching--well, there you have it--a major milestone in the Biblical timeline.

"They have been since Christ came."

That's true, but again, not to this magnitude. The last incident of this level of importance was probably the reclamation of the Holy Land by Israel in 1947-1948--a fulfillment of a 2500-year-old prophecy.

"Who are you to point that out?"

I'm just a guy who reads the Bible and thinks about this stuff. Last I checked, anyone could speak freely about it if they chose. I'm not sure why it matters who I am.

"Latter days is a broad term, but again......"

Absolutely correct--as is "last act". That's intentional. Again, I'm not saying that the end of the world is tomorrow. The important part is that Jews are coming to Faith in Jesus in larger and larger numbers and in higher and higher places within Judaism. That is not limited to kaduri, and it is Biblically significant, not because I say it is, but because the Bible says it is. Read up on it, and we can chat more later.






Gotcha Covered,
Lee Strickland
Strickland Marine Insurance Agency, Inc.
https://stricklandmarine.net
843-795-1000 / 800-446-1862





And on this we are in agreement. Respectful debate.
gotchacovered Posted - 05/08/2012 : 11:52:39 AM
quote:
Originally posted by SeaLevelPete

Gotcha,
There is an old saying "never argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience". This does NOT apply to you, but you should have your own, "never argue with an expert because he will present you with a well reasoned, logical argument complete with accurate references."

I replied knowing I would be schooled (educated, in a good way). I tip my hat to your knowledge and dedication to your faith. I am certainly out of my league. I will look at your references.

sealevelPete





Thank you, Mr. Pete!






Gotcha Covered,
Lee Strickland
Strickland Marine Insurance Agency, Inc.
https://stricklandmarine.net
843-795-1000 / 800-446-1862
7cs Posted - 05/08/2012 : 11:46:21 AM
Was it determined in the video that the Jewish leader was definately saying Jesus was the messiah, or is that speculation right now?
SeaLevelPete Posted - 05/08/2012 : 11:46:14 AM
Gotcha,
There is an old saying "never argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience". This does NOT apply to you, but you should have your own, "never argue with an expert because he will present you with a well reasoned, logical argument complete with accurate references."

I replied knowing I would be schooled (educated, in a good way). I tip my hat to your knowledge and dedication to your faith. I am certainly out of my league. I will look at your references.

sealevelPete

gotchacovered Posted - 05/08/2012 : 11:35:00 AM
"Must have missed that "might" part in the title."

That's why they say, "don't judge a book by its cover". You really need to read the whole of what I a man writes before trying to form conclusions about his message. Otherwise, you will regularly misunderstand.

From my first reply to BGF above: "....it could represent a milestone in the Prophecy of the Ingathering....may be on the horizon....the last act could be about to begin...."

7cs, if you don't see the potential Biblical significance of a world-renowned Jewish leader, from the generation who reclaimed the Holy Land as the Homeland for the Jews after 2,000 years of exile, allegedly pronouncing to the world, from Jerusalem, that Jesus Christ is the Messiah of Israel, then I highly recommend that you do some Bible reading, and, maybe, chat with some pastors. The observations I've made on this are not by any means scarce among Evangelical Christians. This stuff is obvious to most any Christian student of Biblical Prophecy.

"As far as seasons, they are constantly unfolding in the Biblical timeline."

That's true, but not to the point of a world-renowned Jewish leader pronouncing Jesus as the Messiah. No, sir. That hasn't happened in, oh, about 2,000 years, and those who did it then were killed for it, launching--well, there you have it--a major milestone in the Biblical timeline.

"They have been since Christ came."

That's true, but again, not to this magnitude. The last incident of this level of importance was probably the reclamation of the Holy Land by Israel in 1947-1948--a fulfillment of a 2500-year-old prophecy.

"Who are you to point that out?"

I'm just a guy who reads the Bible and thinks about this stuff. Last I checked, anyone could speak freely about it if they chose. I'm not sure why it matters who I am.

"Latter days is a broad term, but again......"

Absolutely correct--as is "last act". That's intentional. Again, I'm not saying that the end of the world is tomorrow. The important part is that Jews are coming to Faith in Jesus in larger and larger numbers and in higher and higher places within Judaism. That is not limited to kaduri, and it is Biblically significant, not because I say it is, but because the Bible says it is. Read up on it, and we can chat more later.






Gotcha Covered,
Lee Strickland
Strickland Marine Insurance Agency, Inc.
https://stricklandmarine.net
843-795-1000 / 800-446-1862
7cs Posted - 05/08/2012 : 11:15:44 AM
quote:
Originally posted by gotchacovered

I am not predicting any days or hours, 7cs. You are apparently reading something into my words that I did not write or intent to imply. You misunderstand what I'm saying. This is also how people get into trouble with the Bible--by not reading it thoroughly or by reading things into it. The title of this thread was only an eye catcher, 7cs. It's not an actual proclamation. If you take the time to read what I wrote, you'll see that I'm not really saying that this event actually IS the beginning of the ast act with a high degree of certainty. I don't even know for sure that Kaduir really was referring to the Biblical Jesus. I'm just saying that it might very well be a milestone in the process that brings about the latter-day final events--a season in the unfolding of the Biblical timeline. I do believe we are living in latter days--and not just because of the videos above--but I won't be predicting any days or hours.

"Why not just humble yourself and accept it when it comes?"

Well, let's see that Jesus had to say about that.

"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door." (Matthew 24:32-33)

I'm just saying, "Hey, look at that twig", and this event, honestly, is only one of many.






Gotcha Covered,
Lee Strickland
Strickland Marine Insurance Agency, Inc.
https://stricklandmarine.net
843-795-1000 / 800-446-1862






Must have missed that "might" part in the title. As far as seasons, they are constantly unfolding in the Biblical timeline. They have been since Christ came. Who are you to point that out? Latter days is a broad term, but again......
gotchacovered Posted - 05/08/2012 : 11:05:32 AM
I am not predicting any days or hours, 7cs. You are apparently reading something into my words that I did not write or intent to imply. You misunderstand what I'm saying. This is also how people get into trouble with the Bible--by not reading it thoroughly. The title of this thread was only an eye catcher, 7cs. It's not an actual proclamation. If you take the time to read what I wrote, you'll see that I'm not really saying that this event actually IS the beginning of the last act with any high degree of certainty. I don't even know for sure that Kaduri really was referring to the Biblical Jesus. I'm just saying that it might very well be a milestone in the process that brings about the latter-day final events--a season in the unfolding of the Biblical timeline. I do believe we are living in latter days--and not just because of the videos above--but I won't be predicting any days or hours. Whether you realize it or not, Israel coming to Faith in Messiah on a large-scale basis, in latter days, is part of Biblical Prophecy, as is the reconstitution of the Holy Land as a homeland for Israel. Why should one ignore these events? All I'm saying is, "Man, check that out! This could be what we've been reading about and waiting for. Look alive."

"Why not just humble yourself and accept it when it comes?"

Well, let's see that Jesus had to say about that.

"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door." (Matthew 24:32-33)

I'm just saying, "Hey, look at that twig", and this event, honestly, is only one of many.






Gotcha Covered,
Lee Strickland
Strickland Marine Insurance Agency, Inc.
https://stricklandmarine.net
843-795-1000 / 800-446-1862
7cs Posted - 05/08/2012 : 10:51:47 AM
Lee, Matthew and Mark clearly say no one knows the day or hour, or of the end, not even the angels or the son, only the father. What makes you think you have any idea that the final act is beginning? Why would you even speculate on that? Are you challenging the Bible? Why not just humble yourself and accept it when it comes?
gotchacovered Posted - 05/08/2012 : 10:37:26 AM
By the way, I get really excited to see anyone come to Faith, but it's especially important to me when I see a descendant of Abraham come to Faith in his Messiah, because his forefather--not mine--brought us the Messiah, and Jesus came to save HIM, and my Salvation was only extended because his forefathers were blinded for a season--until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. Put more specifically, "Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in." (Romans 11:25) "For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their [Israel's] acceptance be but life from the dead?" (Romans 11:15)

I highly recommend that you read chapter 11 of Romans, along with chapter 10 of Matthew, chapter 31 of Jeremiah, chapter 53 of Isaiah, and top it off with the Book of Revelation.

In so doing, never forget the words, "They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." (Luke 21:24)

What I'm trying to tell you is that the "times of the Gentiles" may be coming to an end.






Gotcha Covered,
Lee Strickland
Strickland Marine Insurance Agency, Inc.
https://stricklandmarine.net
843-795-1000 / 800-446-1862
gotchacovered Posted - 05/08/2012 : 10:12:40 AM
OK, here's your change. Don't get offended.

You seem to misunderstand the point and the statement here. By no means do I think that you or I need any sort of "buy-in of some organization to validate [our] beliefs", Mr. Pete. Far from it. On the contrary, my Faith in Yeshua has been firm for over 20 years apart from any such buy-in, but the same Jesus gave the "Great Commission" to His disciples, and that commission was to bring the world to Salvation, starting with the Jews, and there are prophecies that go along with milestones in that process in the latter days (too many to quickly cite here, but I can when I have the time if you desire). That Commission was to beget the "buy-in" of as many Jews as possible, and only then, to go to the Gentiles. Jesus also told His Disciples, "...but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 10:6), and "...you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. It is enough for the disciple to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master." (Matthew 10:23-25). As a result of reading the commission of JESUS, I've been longing to see more and more Jews come to Salvation ever since I first started following Him, and any Christian should do the same if he wants to please his Master. If you read the Book that founded the Christian Faith--the New Testament--this is abundantly clear, but most Christians believe in a Jesus they don't know much about because of a lack of reading. Bringing Jews to Faith in Jesus was the primary mission of Jesus and His Disciples. If you "don't buy" that concept, then you don't buy the New Testament. If you don't buy the New Testament, then how can you be sure the Jesus you claim is Jesus at all? If you criticize the very endeavor that Jesus, Himself, commissioned, you are criticizing Jesus Himself, and not misunderstanding the Faith you claim to hold. Jesus Christ was not a blonde-haired, blue-eyed, Euroepean Catholic or American Protestant. He lived in Israel (Judea) as Jew, named Yeshua (short for Yehoshua), who called other Jews to Faith him Himself as the Jewish Meshiach. He was called the "King of the Jews", not the "King of the Gentiles", although, in truth, He is the King of all. He said, "everyone that is perfect shall be as his master" (Luke 6:40). Who is your master? Mine is the Messiah who called the Jews to Faith. I am far, far from perfect, but I hope to be more like Him, and I take joy I seeing people who have been shut up in darkness for 2,000 year come to Faith in their Savior.

So, my point here is not by ANY means that Kaduri's apparent statement of faith in Yeshua VALIDATES my Christian Faith--not at all. I didn't need the rabbi's validation when I ate as a young Christian at his table in Jerusalem 20 years ago (not Kaduri, but another), and I don't need it now. I'm just (a) celebrating the fact that more Jews are coming to Faith in Messiah and being saved, and (b) acknowledging that this is a potential milestone as set forth in Biblical prophecy--from both the Old Testement and the New Testament.

With all that being said, if what you meant by "I don't buy it" is that you don't believe that Rabbi Kaduri really believed in Jesus, then that's fine. I don't know it for a certainty, either. What I do know is that hundreds of thousands of Jews now profess Jesus as their Messiah, and more are coming into the fold daily. It's life from the dead, and I praise God when Salvation comes to every soul--"to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile" (Romans 1:16).






Gotcha Covered,
Lee Strickland
Strickland Marine Insurance Agency, Inc.
https://stricklandmarine.net
843-795-1000 / 800-446-1862
SeaLevelPete Posted - 05/07/2012 : 8:28:36 PM
Sorry Gotcha, I don't buy it. Another evangelical Christian organization ala "Jews For Jesus" who feel that the coup de grce is to have Jews accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. I am a Christian and I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and I don't need the buy-in of some other organization to validate my beliefs, be it Jewish, Atheist or Buddhist.

My 2 cents. I expect change.

sealevelPete

bgf Posted - 05/06/2012 : 6:40:17 PM
Very well stated Lee. I heard the references to the crucifixion and shed blood, and that would not be pertinent today, to a 'new' messiah; but I also felt that this was left open to interpret either way. I sincerely pray that they follow the Christian doctrines; however we have read the end of the Book.
jisuho Posted - 05/06/2012 : 1:58:59 PM
oh, brother. really?


j
gotchacovered Posted - 05/06/2012 : 11:15:35 AM
In short, BGF, we have some alleged Kaduri students saying that he was not referring to the Biblical Jesus, but we have at least one specifically claiming that he WAS and that he went into the depths of Christian Salvation doctrine with him. Salvation by the Crucifixion is a patently Christian doctrine that would not make sense in reference to some modern Yeshua figure. The trick lies in what people do with this information. Do they draw to the Biblical Jesus and follow the instructions in the Gospels to await His Return in the sky as the "Son of Man", or do they look for a kaballistic reincarnation of a messiah in a modern man named Yeshua? That's where the rubber might ultimately hit the road, as the latter would be a false messiah either way.

What encourages me is that, so far, it looks like at least the one Kaduri disciple in the first video is a follower of the Biblical Jesus! He made that pretty clear.






Gotcha Covered,
Lee Strickland
Strickland Marine Insurance Agency, Inc.
https://stricklandmarine.net
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gotchacovered Posted - 05/06/2012 : 10:57:18 AM
quote:
Originally posted by bgf

Interesting Lee. Do they believe that this is the same Jesus that we follow? I got the feeling that they believe the crucifixion and ressurection are yet to come. ?



That's an excellent and fitting question! I appreciate people who resist the tendency to jump to firm conclusions without thorough discovery.

At this point, I am not sure if Kaduri really is hailing the Biblical Jesus or a modern, false Messiah. It's not without precedent for a rabbi to hail a false messiah here and there. The importance, however, remains either way in this case because of the Name and the world-renowned prowess of the rabbi making the claim.

If he's talking about the Biblical Jesus, then that would be most important because it could represent a milestone in the Prophecy of the Ingathering, shared by Jews AND Christians, where Israel comes home and receives her Messiah. Both groups believe in a final ingathering, a Messiah, and a full-scale reception of Him by a "remnant" of Israel, but to date, only a relative few "Jews" have joined brothers in believing that the Messiah is the Biblical Jesus--even though the Faith started with Jews and at least around 200,000 Messianic Jews are estimated to exist today--175,000 in the United States alone.

If he's talking about someone else by the same Name (there are plenty of Jews named by the same name, and at least one among Kaduri's friends), then the Revelation prophecy of the antichrist may be on the horizon. The antichrist must have the power to deceive people into thinking he's divine and worthy of taking his seat in Jerusalem. The religious authority carried by Kaduri, coupled with the Name he revealed could work together to make for a grand deception among Jews and Gentiles. Jesus said that the deception would be so great that "if it were possible, even the elect would be deceived". That deception should be easily spotted, however, by ardent students of the Gospel Scriptures, when and if some existing human being stepped forward--with or without Kaduri's intended blessing--and claimed to be that Messiah that Kaduri named, because the Biblical Jesus warned us not to follow ANY "Messiah" who didn't appear in the sky, where He said He will be seen upon His return. He came as an Earthly man the first time. When He returns, it will be a celestial event.

Either way, the last act could be about to begin.

With that being said, what I can tell you with a high degree of certainty is that the guy on the right in the first video is Zev Porat, a Messanic Jew (Jewish Christian) who is definitely talking about the Biblical Jesus. He's a Gospel missionary to Israel. (The ministry's website is http://salvationforisrael.net/). The alleged disciple of Kaduri in the video appearently knows Zev, and if Zev is translating him accurately, the disciple believes that Zev was sent by God to him to help spread the Good News that Kaduir taught him--the Gospel. It stands to reason that no Jesus-rejecting Jew, hailing another Messiah, would believe Zen Porat was a Godsend. More importantly, the mention of the cross and the shedding of the Messiah's blood as ultimate redemption through the Crucifixion is patently Christian and patently rejected by traditional Jews. That's actually one of the primary catches that keep Jews from believing in Jesus.

So, if translated properly by Zev Porat, it appears that, at the very least, the alleged disciple of Kaduri is definitely talking about the Biblical Jesus in the first video. He also clearly says that his master, Kaduri, taught him about the Biblical Jesus as the Savior Messiah. What is still not clear there, though, is whether or not they are expecting His Return to occur in the way that WE are expecting it (i.e., in the sky as a supernatural celestial event), or in some other way, as through some kind of soul attachment with an already-living man. If it is the latter, then they are unwittingly preaching a false Messiah. In otherwords, just like ANY "Christian", they could really believe in the Biblical Jesus, but they could be expecting Him to return in the person of some rabbi by the same name, sort of like a reincarnation event. Jesus warned us about things like that. Like I said, though, that part is unclear.

Along with disciple's mention of the Crucifixion, others who claim to have examined Kaduri's other late writings say that he hand-wrote cross symbols in the margins. One must keep in mind that the cross is a primary offense to a traditional Jew when used in reference to a Messiah. Crucifixion was a 1st-century Roman institution, and the cross has become synonymous with the persecution of the Jews over the millenia since. It is not generally accepted as any sort of Godly symbol by traditional Jews, and while more learned Jews do know about the ancient Jewish tradition of a suffering-servant Messiah, the suffering is not believed by them to be along the lines of crucifixion. Some Messianic Synagogues won't even allow a cross in the building because, while they understand the meaning and value, they don't want to quickly turn off traditional Jews who have always seen the cross as a symbol of antisemitism. So, I think the mention of crucifixion specifically ties the disciple's testimony to the Biblical Jesus, while the cross symbols may do the same for Kaduri's writings.

Aside from all that, no Messiah figure garnishes the kind of trepidation among the Orthodox in Israel, and causes quite the uproar, as the Biblical Jesus. The controversy over this is obvioulsy over the idea that Kaduri was referring to the Biblical Jesus, and the opponents of the idea have tried several arguments to counter the claim. That could explain why he waited util after his own death to reveal the Name, and the alleged disciple in the first video above says that's the exact reason. He said Kaduri was afraid of the persecution of his peers that would surely follow his pronouncement that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah. I know a lady who helps rabbis and their families escape persecution in the Jerusalem yeshiva community when they profess faith in Yeshua as the Messiah, so I know what he's talking about. The Orthodox can get very hostile over a fellow orthodox professing faith in Jesus. It's a big deal.

If Kaduri were simply claiming another modern rabbi named Yeshua as the Messiah, that wouldn't be that big of a deal, because Jews do that every now and then. In fact, even though virtually everyone now knows that Bar Kochbah was a false Messiah, whom Rabbi Achiva hailed as the savior during the revolution of 134 AD, leading the whole of Jewry to be exiled from Jerusalem, Jews all over the world still revere Achiva, despite his false Messiah. That's the odd (telling?) thing. Jews don't get as riled up over false Messiahs as they do about the Biblical Jesus.

Orthodox in Israel who did not share Kaduri's apparent belief are scrambling to deny the claim. Their first resort was to deny that the letter was written by Kaduri, but it was posted on his own official website by his own disciples. Then, they claimed that he was talking about another Yeshua--a rabbi that Kaduri knew. If the alleged disciple in the first video above is true and correct, then Kaduri was talking about the Biblical Jesus. If others are right, the Kaduri was talking about someone else.

So, like I said, at this point, I really don't know whether Kaduri was talking about the Biblical Jesus or not. One more thing that gives me some pause is that Kaduri allegedly also said something in a speech about Messiah's Soul having been "attached to a person" (a reputed concept among Kabalists). That sounds more like a Kaballistic setup for a false messiah, but I just don't know for sure.

We'll have to just follow the Instruction Manual, and do what Jesus said to do in the mean time--watch the sky and reject any man claiming to be the Messiah.

While we're on this topic, though, I'll post another video for you that shows an orthodox rabbi in Israel who claims that his rabbinical masters taught him the the Biblical Yeshua is the messiah, but that he doesn't consider himself a "Christian", per se, because, as he says, the Christians don't truly follow the Biblical Jesus because they don't keep the Law of Moses. You see, even among the first Christians (who were Jews), there was always a faction of Jesus-believing rabbis who insisted that Jesus was a Teacher of the Law. From the Gospels and the account of Acts, I believe they were right, but the Jerusalem council, led by James, granted Gentile Christians a waiver from the Law of Moses, except for four specific Laws, according to the book of acts. It was a subject of great controversy at the time.

The important part here is that, regardless of whether or not we believe Jesus preached the Law of Moses, even Orthodox rabbis are coming to Faith in the Biblical Jesus as THE Messiah--despite a culture of extreme persecution. This is potentially a big deal in the area of Biblical prophecy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq9ZJT18q7g






Gotcha Covered,
Lee Strickland
Strickland Marine Insurance Agency, Inc.
https://stricklandmarine.net
843-795-1000 / 800-446-1862
Cracker Larry Posted - 05/05/2012 : 09:49:57 AM
I can't wait to see how the story ends

Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats
bgf Posted - 05/05/2012 : 08:11:47 AM
Interesting Lee. Do they believe that this is the same Jesus that we follow? I got the feeling that they believe the crucifixion and ressurection are yet to come. ?
mummichog Posted - 05/05/2012 : 07:30:02 AM
December 21, 2012. The Mayans were right.
skinneej Posted - 05/04/2012 : 1:37:41 PM
Interesting, but you should put the video with longer URL first. It would give a better overview before watching the interview one.
pescazorro Posted - 05/04/2012 : 11:57:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Half-hitched

So, he has been in a permanent vegetative state since what, 2007?



Actually since 2006

"Endeavor to Persevere.
Give,Give.. Never Take."
EC
Half-hitched Posted - 05/04/2012 : 11:43:14 AM
So, he has been in a permanent vegetative state since what, 2007?
pescazorro Posted - 05/04/2012 : 11:08:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Half-hitched

So, is Sharon still in a vegetative state or what? Not that I really care, just curious.



yes just googled it.

"Endeavor to Persevere.
Give,Give.. Never Take."
EC
Half-hitched Posted - 05/04/2012 : 11:04:22 AM
So, is Sharon still in a vegetative state or what? Not that I really care, just curious.

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