Bull Red Gender


Watching and listening to the show Unfathomed over the weekend and Captain George Gozdz was in Charleston doing an episode called Chucktown Reds. He was fishing with local Captain JR Waits. Capt Waits stated that with the big bull reds you couldn't tell if they were male or female. Aren't the ones that drum males? Do they stop drumming when they get a certain size? Just wondering if that's really the case on big spottail? Anyone else catch the episode?

Paging Barbawang...

I tried to post this yesterday but damm forum wont let me post but once a day or something.


Fishing Nerd

"No bar, no pinball machines, no bowling alleys, just pool... nothing else."

...well, some fishing too!
Replies

  • <<
  • <
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2 pages
Twice in one day and twice on the same thread.. y'all made me use the Google dictionary.
) ichthyologist (
Hell I thought EF was making words up. But obviously not..


I am fragile.
Not like a flower.
But like a bomb.

22 life's a day
Great post. Learn stuff all the time. I never knew the larger flounder were all females until Optiker posted it. I've talked to a bunch of people about it and only one person said he knew this (which I don't think he did). Maybe this knowledge will get passed around and let a few big females return to lay some eggs.

Barbawang, I knew the Drummers are male and under the impression that any red over 30" was a female. Is this so? That's always been my hang up on people purposely targeting the "Bull's" that you can't keep anyway.

Growing up I've heard a few Hen's crow as well. They mostly sound like a young roster just starting out and never change tone.
EF, that's a new one on me, but I always defer to the guy who smells like gin when it comes to matters of marine biology. There is another sound that red drum can make with their "crushers" which are the pharyngeal teeth at the back of the throat, sounds like grinding gravel when they mash them together as a stress response (or when destroying a huge rusty jimmy, i'd imagine). but that's probably not the sound in question.

As far as black drum, I'm pretty sure you're right that both sexes can drum. So can croaker, which is why they do it every time you catch one. Spot and whiting are silent Sciaenids by contrast.

The muscles that extend along the swimbladders of males simply aren't present in females as far as i'm aware. if you cut open a trout that you noticed was drumming, look for the deep red/almost purple muscle strip along the inside of the abdominal cavity. It's visible when filleting through the top of the rib cage as well. Those muscles hypertrophy due to use during spawning season and atrophy before it's time for Spring training the next year.


Fred, I can't find a age/length key that breaks males and females apart right now, but the "over 30" is a female red drum" thing is definitely not true. many individuals don't even mature till after they're 30" long, and for my own purposes I really don't think of a "bull" as anything under 36... but that's my own designation because I know they're pretty much all adults at that point, and due to what the average drag stack on a 2500 can do (and how fair the fight can quickly become around structure). I'll direct you to Pg15, Fig12 in the below publication and let you take in the large amount of information there. it's the reason the slot is set the way it is, keep only subadults that are roughly 1.5-2.5yrs old before they come close to maturity and are therefore valuable to protect as long-lived spawning stock.

https://www.dnr.sc.gov/marine/mrri/insh_fish/reddrum.pdf

in fact, i have this link bookmarked because it can answer a lot of these type of questions for me, and there are some good stories and fishing tips in them too:

https://www.dnr.sc.gov/marine/mrri/insh_fish/publications.html


10lb test and a 1/0 circle hook, live bait fishing for trout around rocks... fair fight.
before you talk down the size of my fish (oh, i miss the old Skinnee, Phin, and S4G days), remember that i have enormous hands.

OTC gonna burn up some google on that last post.
How bout that hair too! Nice!

Hey man, thanks for the major contributions to this thread. I'm learning a lot!


Fishing Nerd

"No bar, no pinball machines, no bowling alleys, just pool... nothing else."

...well, some fishing too!
I'm batting a thousand today..
Good stuff...

Oh yeah it's Willy's birthday today he's 88...¡!!!


I am fragile.
Not like a flower.
But like a bomb.

22 life's a day
Last edited by Off the chain
Nice! You and Optiker have schooled me. Still lot's to learn in life. I always thought the big Spot Tail were all females and never knew all large Flounder are females. I'm with ya on a "bull" + 36" . And for Optiker, yes I have caught and released some fish in my later years. Had a nice legal live well of Spot tail a few months ago all were still good and lively.. Let em go. Guess now when I see a Big Red floating from neglect from a poor fisherman i can't automatically assume its a lady fish.

How is SkinnyJ doing? He always kept a post lively. Since he got his deep water dock and Bolbie taught him lawn care, you just don't hear from him any more. smile
what year was the pic from? Mid 70"s? or you sporting that fabulous frock today? Looks like my brothers hair do's were then.

I've got my mom looking for them , back in the late 60's Dad was stationed at Hunter Arm/Air station in Savannah. He's caught some epic spot tail, trout and sheep head from the groins around Tybee.
 

  • <<
  • <
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2 pages